ROBERTO GIUSTI
EL UNIVERSAL

When he arrived in the Ministry of the Interior, he says, more than half of the Colombian territory was in the hands of the rebel Colombian Revolutionary Armed Forces (FARC) and 350 mayors had left their municipalities to avoid being killed. Nowadays, states Fernando Londoño Hoyos - no longer working in governmental positions and, therefore, free to speak - without the ties Colombian President Álvaro Uribe has imposed on his collaborators, the FARC are defeated in Colombia but they are now acting in Venezuela.

- If Chávez knew that his proposal of granting a belligerency status to the FARC would provoke universal revulsion, why did he do it then?

- Forgive me if from afar I sound disrespectful, but one believes to see things better from the outside than from the inside. Chávez is feeling the steps of a large animal. He sees that his government has been a disaster, that his country's internal situation is becoming almost unbearable, and he does what the dictators have done, something very old and known by the whole world: he searches on the outside for things to unite the people behind him, by means of real or imaginary wars. They times in which dictators have gotten their peoples in dreadful situations to distract their attention are unrepeatable. Lepoldo Galtieri got Argentina in a 'little' war and not only against Great Britain and the United States, but against both countries at the same time.

- But there was a reason that prompted the nationalist fiber of the Argentines. What would the reason be in this case?

- Chávez, following lessons learned from Cuba and other places, in addition to the dictates of his despair, invents the reasons: "The Empire of evil moves against Venezuela. We must unite as one man to confront the invasion." An invasion in which no one, with sound judgment, has believed in, but he does, behind the idea that this works and takes hold in the emotionality of the Venezuelans. This is how poorly he thinks of his own people, believing that such a scam can work.

- The war is also against Colombia.

- Colombia is the fist that the United States uses to hit Venezuela. President Uribe is the one entrusted, by President Bush, to invade Venezuela. Meanwhile, the FARC are an insurgent movement, the continuation of the Bolivarian movement.

- Couldn't President Uribe fall into the provocation?

- No, forget it. Invite, not President Uribe, but any other Colombian, to enter into a conflict with Venezuela and you will see how they reject this invitation. The same applies to the Venezuelans. That is why the man goes increasingly madder. In Venezuela there are those who argue that he is mentally ill. I believe it. He is not a great talent, contrary to what some people think; he is not an illustrated man either, but rather a primitive one, as evidenced by his attitude. Such megalomania ends up by making people lose their minds. If you listen to Hitler's speeches, then you think: "Who could ever believe in such a ridiculous and grotesque thing?" Well, no others than the most educated people on earth, Germany. Consequently, this man thinks that if Hitler was followed, he will also be followed, because - to top it all up - he also has some petrodollars that are running out. Regardless of how clumsy he may be, he knows that he has led his country into an unprecedented economic crisis. The economic indicators are a disaster and one wonders what he is capable of amidst a disaster. He says things that almost nobody takes at heart. I certainly do.

- Such as?

-When in relation to Colombia he talks about his Sukhoi airplanes, one wonders whether he will be able to give the order to bomb. And listen, a madman who has lost everything and has no contact with reality, when surrounded by totally adverse circumstances, is capable of anything. I also wonder whether there will be a pilot so crazy so as to obey that crazy order. But he mentioned it, and this points out to a quasi delirious state.

 -Is Colombia prepared for such a possibility?

- Not on the slightest, because the basic premise is to be emotionally prepared, and no one should attempt to engage Colombia in a war against Venezuela, not even one of words or a simulated one. The famous "Guaicaipuro" war game, where one simulates an attack through La Guajira and the FARC raise up in arms, we are not able to do it here because it has no reason to be.

- Isn't supporting the FARC not a form of waging a war against the Colombian State?

- Of course it is.

- Would the FARC be defeated without this support?

- Of course. That represents a cost for Colombia, but a much higher one for Venezuela. I do not know if you are aware of the price that you are paying for allowing the FARC and drug trafficking to be installed in your country. We are specialist in that. We have poured too much blood and tears. We know what the inevitable collusion of the FARC with the Mafia represents. There is no large-scale drug trafficking without an army that protects it. This is very serious. You must realize what is entailed in this support to the FARC, who are defeated and have reached the end of their possibilities in Colombia. But not in Venezuela, because no one knows them or combats against them. You lived 40 years of peace while we suffered from massacres, attacks to towns, destruction, and installation of mines. But we got back on our feet. The world saw, on February 4th, 10 million Colombians in the streets. Amazing!

rgiusti@eluniversal.com

Read the special feature on the Andean diplomatic crisis